Numerous times Veronica and I have mentioned Ned and Ann, always in a less-than-flattering light, but the complete story about them was told on our old invite-only “The Flip Side” blog, which only had about 30-40 readers.  Fortunately [or not] I archived that blog before deleting it.  In their entirety, here are the 3 posts chronicling our experience with Ned and Ann, originally published in mid-to-late November 2008, and hopefully gives some of the backstory about how Veronica and I approach the lifestyle.

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The Time Had Come…. [Written by Veronica with occasional comments by me]

I guess I had been due. I have had eighteen years of consistently great sex with Hubman. B from our first swap rocked my world. Swingerhusband was exquisite. I guess it was my turn to have some bad sex.

Hubman: I had a less-than-great time with B’s wife, so that’s the reference to her turn.

Before I go into the sex part of the evening with Ned and Ann (names changed) I have to say that the whole night was not a total loss. They are very nice people and we had a lot of laughs and great conversation. I made Chicken Vesuvio, which was delicious. They brought some good wine and everyone was having fun.

Hubman: We had met them for dinner at a restaurant about 2 weeks ago, so we knew we liked them and got along well, but we chose at the time not to write about it, if only because other than them being potential swinging partners, there wasn’t much worth writing about yet.

Then we put the kids to sleep, and headed down to the basement, where we locked the door and began the adult portion of the evening. We have a finished basement. Half of it is the kid’s playspace and half of it is a library/office setup. We flip the futon and pull the curtain and voila! we have a cozy adult playspace.

Hubman: I have to confess to wondering if anything would happen at this point. When we were upstairs and the kids were still watching TV downstairs, Ann chose to squeeze into a small spot next to Ned on the sectional, rather than sit next to me. Veronica was on the other side of Ned.

So Hubman and I sit on the couch with the other spouse and we start making out. Ned’s kissing isn’t my favorite but he puts his tongue to good use and is not drooly so we continue and clothes start coming off.  Now as all of you know, I am very sensitive about my midsection and its lack of firmness. However, as a girl I have lingerie options that can downplay this feature. Men do not have that option, and in his case, that is unfortunate. This in itself was not an issue.

Hubman: God bless ASM. We get downstairs, I sit on a chair and the 3 of them are on the futon. ASM says, “Hey, Hubmans sitting all by himself, we need to do something about that”. So they made room for me. I really don’t think Ann would have made the first move towards me, for reasons to be explained later…

He was a biter/pincher though and that was an issue. Honestly, I think I must have muttered some variation of “easy sweetie” about a dozen times. I decide that the foreplay is going to be a wash, but thankfully I do not need a lot to get going so I unbuckle his jeans and move downward. Now in our many IM’s he claimed to have an ‘amazing tongue’ but since my monthly friend had just left town, I did not choose to participate in that activity. I pull down his pants and boxer briefs. His cock is semi-erect and I take it into my mouth looking forward to seeing it fully erect. And soon it was.

You know how the side mirror on cars has that warning, “Objects in mirror are closer than they appear”? Well perhaps the webcam should come with a similar warning about how objects on webcam are smaller than they appear.

Hubman: Ann, on the other hand, is a yummy little thing. Pretty girl, nice tight body, cute boobs with small dark nipples, great ass, flat stomach, tasty pussy. I was a happy man

However it wasn’t the lack of size that made it bad sex. I have had great sex with smaller men before. (Granted that was before I had 18 years of Hubman sex, but still its a probable concept.) What made it bad was the fact that he seemed to go on autopilot. He started as a battering ram and just battered his way through the whole thing, despite my efforts to slow him down. Mercifully the fact that it took him about six minutes to go from insertion to orgasm is why I’m not sore today.

Hubman: Even though Ann is a hottie, I’ll pass on sex with her again also. She just laid there, no response at all. I derive pleasure during sex from knowing that my partner is feeling pleasure herself. I was eating Ann’s pussy (and several women have suggested I’m good at that…) and getting nothing, I mean nothing, in response. I look up at her and whisper “you like that?”, she shows a very satisfied grin and says yes. Just wish I didn’t have to ask to know that she liked what I was doing. The same thing once I penetrated her. Basically, she just laid there. No movement, no sounds, nothing. Though there was a momentary wide-eyed look when I first penetrated her that was nice…

Hubman felt bad about things but I figured that sometimes he has more fun and sometimes I do.The next day Hubman asked me about what makes someone good in bed. I can sum it up in one word.

Listening.

Hubman and the other men (and women) I have had good sex with were good not because they were very well endowed (although it doesn’t hurt), or had magical moves. What makes them good is that they listened to me. Not only to my words, but to my body. Hubman follows my verbal and non-verbal cues. B didn’t do it 100%, but I was nervous and did not do the best job communicating on my end, but it was still great sex. I could also tell that in the future he would be willing to follow my lead more. Swingerhusband? Very thorough and pays attention to detail, whether that detail was to slow down, or speed up or realize that I am not THAT bendy, attention was paid and it made all the difference.

The lesson learned from all this is that I have to trust my instincts about people. I get paid a decent amount of money for my work in HR. When I am not pushing papers around I constantly deal with people whether its interviewing them for a job, assisting them with an insurance issue, doing investigations, or providing discipline. I form a first impression in about the 1st five minutes and I have found that I am correct in my initial impression about 95% of the time.

My first impression of Ned? Pushy fratboy. Our 1st webcam had involved me trying to get off the webcam explaining about morning obligations and the kids and him not listening and pushing too hard. Our sex was ‘fratboy’ sex with him not listening and pushing too hard. I had asked Hubman if we could blow them off after the 1st webcam and he asked me to give them another chance. Next time I will listen more carefully to my instincts and be more insistent that we follow them.

Hubman: Ned also didn’t get it when ASM said she couldn’t flash him right then, as the kids were in the room. He didn’t listen. I think I let my attraction to Ann cause me to convince ASM to continue with them. My bad…

Also, that first webcam experience reinforced our feeling that we would rather play with other couples that also have kids, if only because they understand the practicalities of juggling swinging and family obligations. Ned and Ann are younger, still not living together or even engaged, and I had the gut feeling that this might become an issue. I think it did, but not in the expected way. My gut feeling about Ann? I had told Hubman before we went to the 1st dinner with them that she wants to get engaged and is going along with things thinking that it will move them towards her goal. During dinner last night she mentioned that she was waiting for something to happen before she would move in with them. Hubman says, “Let me guess, you’re not living with him until there’s a ring on your finger?” She said yes, that’s the deal. Score another one for Veronica. She participated in the sex in the fact that she was naked and Hubman was inside her but from what I saw, she wasn’t really into it, as Hubman as already described. But, the look on her face when she took all of Hubman the first time was priceless, considering what she is used to with Ned.

Hubman: Why was Ann the hesitant one? I think she’s doing this to make Ned happy, and is hoping for that engagement ring in the near future. Veornica’s snarky comment? “I feel bad for her if she’s going through with this for a lifetime of sex with him.” Ouch!

The new challenge? We like them. We enjoyed hanging out with them. We could see ourselves having dinner and doing wine tastings and maybe an evening at the theatre. But there is no real desire to fuck them again. How do you go back when you met a couple for the main reason of having sex with them, but now just want their friendship and not the sex.

Hubman: And my dumb ass isn’t making things any easier. I twice deeply kiss Ann goodnight and tell her I’m looking forward to seeing her again. Why did I do this if 1) I’m ambivilent about sex with her again and 2) I have no idea yet how ASM felt about sex with Ned? I have no freakin’ idea. Yes, I’m an idiot. And I need to mention that yes, I really did have no idea that the sex was so bad for her. She faked her orgasm with him, fooling me and demonstrating the worth of her undergraduate drama degree.

Don’t worry Hubman, I’ve never faked it with you! Muahh!

Lesson we need to learn: How to stop the action when we realize during foreplay that its going to lead to a bad time. I know I can say ‘no’ or ’stop’ at any time. However, I just couldn’t figure out what to say. I couldn’t imagine getting up and saying “Dude, I hate the pinching and I know I am not going to enjoy the sex, so lets just call it a night.” If someone out there has a creative way out of it at that already-getting-naked point, please let us know.

Hubman: 3 other silly/stupid reasons not to see them again- They both left their socks on during sex. ASM told me, the very first time she sucked my cock 18+ years ago, to take off my socks (I had left them on at first). This morning I found his used condom sitting on the fireplace hearth. And while it was very nice of them to help clean up after dinner, they put our good Wusthof knives in the dishwasher!!!!

Hubman and I debated whether or not to blog about the evening. I hope that I do not come off as mean spirited or unpleasantly bitchy. You are all getting my exact thoughts as I thought them last night, no filter. I feel that if you can’t be honest in your sex blog where can you be honest? Where do we go from here? Well we are supposed to go to a ‘naughty Santa’ party next week. I am hopeful that we will meet some fun people there.

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Hubman: God bless our blogger friends. Last night, after Ned and Ann left, Veronica notices a text message on her phone: “Call me nosy, I dont care, hows it going?” And who is this nosy friend? M, as if that’s any surprise! (Don’t worry, M, we still love you, even if we gently mock you!) And Veronica’s reply? “Worst. sex. ever. I had forgotten how bad sex could be. I’m up. Call if you want” Her phone rang 4 minutes later….We love our blogger friends!

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Clueless?  (Hubman posting…)

Unfortunately, a follow-up to yesterdays post about our evening with Ned and Ann is called for. Sometime yesterday Veronica sent a message thanking them for a nice time the night before.

Veronica: Before the sex part we did have a lovely time. Also, since it was their first time swinging I thought it would be rude to just disappear out of their lives. So I sent them a message.

And I quote Veronica “Thank you for coming over last evening. We had a lovely time. We hope you have a great Thanksgiving.” There was nothing overt about sex in the message, right? We ask you, dear readers, are we suggesting we’d like to have sex with them again? Or was this message neutral enough that if you were the recipient you would get the hint? This morning I log onto the computer and they show up in Yahoo Messenger. Here is the transcript of our conversation, with some of our thoughts for you in italics:

Veronica: I am on the couch on the other laptop.

Ned: hi

Hubman: hi there!

Ned: ned here

Hubman: Hubman here…

Ned: just about to get in shower just wanted to say hi

Ned: thx for the msg the other day, hope u 2 have a great week! (He’s referring to Veronica’s note yesterday)

Hubman: you’re welcome. Hope you have a great week as well. I get to drive to Long Island. grrrrrr I hate LI traffic

Ann: hi its ann (I guess they traded seats at the computer)

Veronica: I think Ned faked the switch and its still him.

Hubman: Hi ann, how are you today?

Ann: hope u 2 had fun with us!  (Oh shit, why is she asking this?)

Ann: im ok thx

Hubman: we had a good time

Hubman: how about you?

Ann: mmmmm yes

Ann: what did Veronica think of ned….i wasnt sure how much she enjoyed it….(Why is she so interested in what Veronica thought of Ned? We’re more convinced than ever that she is agreeing to swing with him hoping an engagement ring is in her future…)

Ann: i did like her licking me tho (Oh, yeah, Veronica also ate Ann’s pussy, while I fucked Veronica from behind. Guess we didn’t mention that in our previous post. Ooops.)

Hubman: Veronica is in the shower. I’d rather let her answer that herself

Hubman: I certainly enjoyed myself (a little lie I know, but if we have to go down this road of discussing performance, let’s keep in about Ned and Veronica. No reason to insult both of them, right?)

Ann: oh, that doesnt siound good

Ann: so she didnt enjoy ned?

Hubman: It was different that what she’s used to, lets say that…

Ann: meaning?

Hubman: menaing I’m not sure that Ned and Veronica’s styles are compatible…

Ann: what does that mean, style? (Oh, boy. I’ve got a dense one on my hands)

Hubman: technique

Ann: why what would she have preferred (Why? Why do you keep asking these questions?)

Hubman: keep this in mind

Hubman: Veronica and I have been together for 18 years and she is used to how I do it. now that you and I had sex, maybe you see how ned and I differ…

Hubman: Veronica is used to how I do it, which is what gets her off

Ann: what would she have preferred (Oh come on, give it a break. Do I have to come out and say it?)

Ann: she didnt seem to have a problem getting off when he was fucking her lol she seemed to cum hard

Hubman: she did ’seem’ too, I agree (Let’s see if she correctly interprets the quotes to mean that Veronica faked the orgasm with Ned…)

Ann: well guess im confused then (Nope. Dammit! Wishful thinking I guess…)

Ann: well im going to go

Ann: take care

Hubman: yeah, we need to get the kids up and going

Hubman: you take care too

Hubman: have a happy thanksgiving

9 minutes later I open the laptop up again, forget that Yahoo Messenger automatically signs me on, and I get this message:

(Don’t know if it’s Ned or Ann): hi, guess we are confused by hearing that Veronica didnt really enjoy it, when it seemed as tho she did…and after you guys said you had a wonderful time….

So how did we respond? By chickening out and signing off!

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Clearly they are not getting the polite hint and just moving on. The more I think about it, the more I believe that Ann is going along with Ned’s desire to swing to make him happy, and hopefully get an engagement ring from him. Maybe I’m wrong, but Veronica feels the same way, and she’s pretty insightful about that sort of thing. Here is our question to you, dear reader- when we IM with them again, do we just come out with the harsh truth and tell them neither of us is interested in sex with them again?

Veronica: I faked an orgasm which is acting a lie in order to not hurt his feelings. Now this comes to bite me in the ass! No good deed goes unpunished I tell you! Also, you would have thought he would have picked up that clue when we switched partners and once Hubman entered me I began wriggling and whimpering like a dog set loose in the Outback Steakhouse kitchen- but noooooo! he didn’t.

An alternative is to remove them from our list of ‘Friends’ in Yahoo Messenger, so they can’t chat with us again. I think that is a rude way to go, and would rather tell them just enough of the truth so that they go away quietly.

Veronica: I don’t know if he would even get it. He just does not listen. Not to me in our first chat, not during sex and I am sure I could skywrite, “You have a teeny peenie and no clue what to do with it!” and he still would not get it.

Either way, I think this whole situation is too bad. They really are nice people, and up until the time we had sex with them, we had a very good time. We could easily be friends with them. But it certainly appears that a non-sex friendship between them is highly unlikely now.

Anyway, why am I afraid that this is not the last blog entry about Ned and Ann?Stay tuned, there may be more….

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I was right…… (Written by Hubman)

Yesterday’s ‘Clueless?’ post was not the end of the story of Ned and Ann….

Veronica and Princess Persistent left this morning on Amtrak for NY, to spend a few days with her mom before Thanksgiving. Darling Boy and I are still at home and will drive down on Thanksgiving morning and join them.I’m sitting here on the computer after dinner and guess who pops up on chat?

Ann. Fuck. Where is Veronica to help me out when I need her?

Once again, here is the chat, with a few select thoughts in italics….

Ann: hi

Hubman: Hi! Hubman here…

Ann: ann…

Ann: did u get my msg from the other day, im still wondering why she didnt enjoy it (Why? Why do you keep asking this question!)

Hubman: I have to ask why you’re so concerned with Veronica’s enjoyment…

Ann: because i want her to have fun too, and ned too, thats what its about right

Hubman: OK. (I’m totally not buying that answer. Or is it, she wants her boyfriend to have some fun, get this swinging idea out of his system, so he proposes to her and they live happily ever after? Damn I’ve become cynical…)

Hubman: Here’s the deal. She felt that Ned didn’t take direction. He bit and pinched, she asked him to stop, he didn’t. She asked him to slow down, he didn’t. It wasn’t a race.

Hubman: The bottom line is that she would not be interested in having sex with him again. Sorry if that is harsh to put it out there like that… (Hey, I least I didn’t insult his penis size. Yes, dear readers, I saw it too. Yes, he was small)

Ann: wow.

Ann: ok

Hubman: are you surprised? (Oh boy, I hope I’m not setting myself up…)

Ann: well considering that she ripped his clothes off and was on him first, and he asked to do more to her….yes. but thats fine, what i think isnt going to change it much

Hubman: just because they got started ahead of us, doesn’t mean she enjoyed it as much. Do you still think her orgasm was real? And she deferred ‘more’ (oral) because she just finished her period…(While I was eating Ann’s pussy she suggested that Veronica let Ned do the same to her, as she thinks he’s really good at it. Veronica deferred and instead climbed right on because her period had ended just that morning.  Courteous, right?  In this case, it was mistaken for enthusiasm. Veronica told me afterwards that she whispered to Ned what the deal was.  Guess Ned didn’t tell Ann that little detail!)

Ann: best of luck to u both

Hubman: and the same to you

Well, I guess that finally got the message across to them. They then signed out of chat. To be honest, a number of you suggested in your comments that we should just be honest with them, without being insulting, which is what Veronica and I agreed would be the best course of action. Still, sitting here 30 minutes later, I feel bad about how this went.

Before I exited chat, I wrote this message to them, which they would get the next time they sign on:

Hubman: Ned and Ann, Veronica and I were hoping that you would get the message yesterday that Veronica’s experience Sat night was less than satisfying and you would politely move on. Unfortunately you did not, and asked some pointed questions earlier. We felt the only way to deal with this was to answer you truthfully. I did not enjoy telling you that Veronica faked her orgasm with Ned. In all honesty, we have enjoyed getting to know and spending time with both of you. If we felt it was possible, we would enjoy continuing our friendship, on a purely platonic level. But that is clearly not possible now. We’re sorry your first swinging experience is ending this way. Good luck in your future adventures. You’re both nice people and we wish you the best.

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After I sent this message, I deleted them from our list of friends in chat. I’m curious if anyone would have handled this differently. I’m really feeling like crap right now, being that blunt with them, but at the same time don’t feel like there was any other way to deal with them. I can hear some of you now. “If you had only listed to Veronica and her instincts in the first place…”