Swing Shift Volume 15- Fucking Friends and The Fallout

A few weeks ago a husband and wife who are regular readers e-mailed Veronica and I, asking for some advice.  We exchange the following messages, and with their approval I’m sharing those messages here and seeking your comments.

Hubman,

About a month ago we had our 1st swinging experience.  It was so fun and exciting.  We had wanted to explore for a long time and we decided that if something happened between us and our good friends it would be a good thing.  We know these guys real well, we always have fun going out and flirting, etc.  Our kids play together, in fact she is  probably my wifes best friend.

Things progressed thru the summer (skinny dipping, etc) and my wife and I felt that everyone was ready.  They are laid back and cool, funny, all the good things.  After putting the kids to bed we all went downstairs at the house we were renting and things got a little heated. Ok, a lot heated.  He actually started it by having his wife sit on my lap.  Mostly it was alot of kissing, my wife and him would go outside, and they would make out.  I would make out with his wife, but i kept it pretty basic as i didnt want to go too far the first night.  At the end of the night in bed my wife told me that she had gotten in his pants, he had got in hers, and they had a great time.  She was smoking hot and dripping wet, and we had one of the best sex sessions we have ever had.  We looked forward to more the next night.

The next night after the kids went to bed we did alot of the same, this time i was more comfortable with being more aggressive with his wife, getting in her pants and even licking her pussy out on the patio in the darkness.  It was HOT!!!  We then went to her room, my wife went with him to ours, and had a great time.  I will never forget the feeling of hearing my wife getting fucked in the next room while I pounded her friend in our room.  I figured seperate rooms for the 1st time would be ok since everyone was a little nervous.  Neither guy wore a condom (no worries there).  The most exciting thing was making love to my wife afterwards (she showered).  In fact, our sex life has been un-fucking believable since our first swinging foray!!!

The problem arouse the next morning.  Her husband immediately changed his attitude.  No more carefree attitude.  He wanted to talk with my wife (and did so for 45 mins) about the prior night.  He basically told her that he loved having sex with her and requested that what happened between them stayed between them.  She told him that this was not how it worked.  He told her that he wanted to fuck her again (and again) but that he was not going to let me “watch him have sex”.  She told him that it was a couples thing and that we had assumed he would be comfortable with same room swapping.   Since we were going home that day we let it be and went our seperate ways.

His wife, my wife and I are all on the same page, keep it fun, no drama, lets explore.  He wants only a repeat of the first time, no same room stuff.  It surprises me so much because he is a friend and has a very open spirit about him (or so i thought).  We swung once more (about 2 weeks later) at his house and it was not as much fun with all these limits.  On top of that, hes sort of moody and clingy now to my wife (emails, complaining to his wife).  This has turned my wife off to swinging with them again, and me too to tell you the truth.  This all seemed like it would work out so good, what do we do???  Man, maybe we should have never played with friends, but there were no STD worries and everyone was such good friends……

Now everyone is all upset.  We met and talked but it went no where.  Since then we have backed off (even when they invited us to there house to play when the kids were gone).  We love what swinging has done for our sex life, we still love them as friends, but he is making everyone feel uncomfortable.  What should we do???

Veronica and I talked over the situation and replied with the following message:

Thanks for sharing this story with us, and looking to us for advice.  I’m not so sure that we’re qualified to give any advice, but here are my thoughts anyway:

First of all, congratulations on entering the lifestyle! Even though later encounters haven’t worked out so well with this couple, it certainly seems like the first swap went well and that it’s had a positive affect on your sex life with your wife.

I think a lot of what happened comes down to communication (and lack of..) and expectations.  We’re assuming that this was a first swap for your friends as well.  Is that correct?

You said that when the beach trip with them came up that you and your wife felt that everyone was ready.  But did either of you ever talk with them about it? Clearly, they were interested in swapping, but had different expectations than you, which lead to the future issues.  It seems to me that you and your wife were interested in a separate room swap the first time, with the idea of trying same-room some other time.  Am I correct?

I wonder if some of the problems can be attributed to swapping with friends.  As you mentioned, there was a level of comfort with them and none of you felt the need to use condoms, which must have been nice (I’m jealous- I’ve only ever fucked Veronica without a condom…), but at the same time, the relationship dynamics are different.  I wonder if the friendship might have made a frank conversation about desires and expectations more difficult.  When Veronica and I are getting to know a couple, part of that is talking about whether they prefer same- or separate-room swap, talking about safe sex practices, etc.  But in this case, I wonder if there might have been some hesitancy to have that conversation, which could have taken away from the spontaneity of the first swap.

You also mention that the other woman is on the same page as you and your wife.  That fact that he is not suggests that there might be a lack of communication or disagreement between them.  You might want to consider suggesting to them that if they want to continue swapping, it might be best if they had a clear understanding between the two of them as to just how they want to play.  You might even go so far as to say you won’t play with them again until they do.

As soon as the other man changed his attitude, that would have been the time to put a stop to playing with them and have that conversation about desires and expectations.  Maybe he’s just happy with separate-room swap and/or isn’t comfortable being naked, aroused and intimate in front of another man.  That’s all perfectly understandable.  And if you and your wife’s desires don’t match up with theirs anymore, perhaps it’s best to work on the friendship with them, tell them that while the swap was fun, you think it’s best for the sake of your friendship not to swap with them again.

Hope it works out for you and your wife, and please let us know if you have any follow up comments or questions.

They followed up with the following message:

Hubman,

Thanks for getting back to us, and for your sage advice.  I will try to answer your questions as you laid them out.

1.  Yes it was there first swap.  In fact, when they got married they had very very few sexual partners.  They got married in college.  No we did not directly talk about what we desired in swinging……that was a mistake.  I will blame it on “Grey Goose” and Sam Adams!!

2.  Yes, we did assume that they would be open to other kinds of situations, this is swinging after all.  Interestingly enough, while everyone was drinking the night before his wife suggested a 3 some.  So I think the closed door policy is only from the hubby.  Let me explain our same room swap thing as we saw how it could be.  A nice big comfortable room with the lights way down so everyone was comfortable in the same room.  In no way would I be the kind of guy to gawk at the sight of his cock in my wifes pussy while being inches from the action…….thats not me.  More of a “shadow” same room swap……sometimes not seeing every detail is sexy.

3.  The friend dynamic is (as we have found out) full of potholes.  We did not communicate well about expectations, I think we all just got excited at the possibilities and went for it.  In the perfect world everyone would be able to talk and be on the same page, but Im not sure its feasable for most sets of friends.  Too bad, because the comfort level to get started  with swinging was great.  It was only after the fucking that things got wierd.  The lack of concern about safe sex was really great too, we trust them completely about that.  The respect issue for my wife and the comfort level was what let her take that next step.  It remains to be seen how she would react with a couple we dont know as well personally.

4.  The friend “fuck buddy” situation is what we were looking for.  Once in a while fucking when everyone was on the same page, when the mood was right.  They seem to want to hook up more than we do, mostly because of our hesitance about the seperate room stuff.  My wife and I were talking last night and it is a little flattering that they are so hot for this to continue.  Not only the hubby, but the wife as well.  Side note, I love “Levitra”, man I made sure she was well taken care of both times I was with her!!!  “Are we that hot??” is something that we laugh about.  I told my wife that she has such a nice personality and is such a hot and considerate lover that this may be a problem if we plunge headlong into the lifestyle —–joke (sort of) with couples constantly hounding us for dates.  “Step away from the pussy” was her comment as we laughed.  I thought we should maybe change the movie “Something about Mary” to “Something about K———”!!

5.  Yes, there appears to be some proof that they are not communicating well.  I dont talk with the wife about swinging, but my wife does a bit with her.  Her husband and her have a hard time talking about the times we have been together.  I dont know if its new or a jealousy thing with him.  Their limited sexual experience may be a factor too.  This may be a bigger deal than I thought.

Hey, I hope I answered your questions.  I really appreciate your inputs guys.

Okay, dear readers, do you think our advice to them was any good?  Have you ever found yourself in a similar situation? If so, how did you handle it?  What are your thoughts on making the transition from friends to friends with benefits?  Is it possible?  Why or why not.

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Veronica and I are still in Las Vegas [this was drafted and scheduled before we left], so I may not get a chance to reply to comments until Tuesday.  As always, your comments, questions and ideas for future Swing Shift columns are appreciated and if you wish to remain anonymous, just e-mail me at hubman38 at gmail dot com and I’ll keep your identity between just you and me.

You can also find me at Hot Dads today as part of another round of “Ask the Hot Dads”.  And check out the cool badge that ZenMom made for me [she made custom ones for all the Hot Dads AND re-designed the site.  You should check it out].

Waaaay too much fun

Let’s see, 48 hrs in Las Vegas, we’ve had four 3somes with a lady friend (who had to leave for home a short while ago), a 4some with her and another women, we’ve been to a strip club, drank A LOT, taken tons of pictures (naughty AND nice ones) and we still have 2 more days!

In about 30 minutes Veronica is taking Stripper 101, complete with souvenir t- shirt and photo. Yes, I’ll share it later

Who knows what might happen tonight!

UPDATE: Tonight we’re going to see Zumanity, ‘the sensual side of Cirque du Soleil’, then tomorrow will include rental a convertible and driving out to Red Rock Canyon National Conversation Area [and maybe taking some HNT pictures in the desert ], then we’re concluding our trip with dinner at Delmonico’s Steakhouse, which is one of Emeril Legasse’s restaurants.  And of course there is always the potential for more naughtiness and pictures…

For now, here is a picture of Veronica flashing me in the hotel on the way out last night.

Can This Trip Get Any Better?

If you think a 3some with 2 bi-sexual women is hot, you should try a 4some with 3 women!!

I think I have a perma-grin right now

The Story Behind the HNT Voyeur Pictures

Since you many of you were wondering in the comments on yesterday’s post as to how we got those pictures, I thought I’d share my tricks.  What I really wanted was for a couple we were supposed to see last weekend help out, under the guise of wanting some new pictures for our profile.  But they had to cancel due to work-related crap, which left me without a plan.  But then a fellow HNTer suggested using my camera on continuous mode, if it had one.  Then it dawned on me, I have a Flip Ultra camcorder, a Gorillapod flexible tripod, and a shrub right outside the basement window.

See?

*click for a larger, better view of the set-up*

I just set up the camera, hit the record button, then joined Veronica inside for about 10 minutes of fucking around, with a general idea of the area of the room that the camera was recording.  Then all I had to do was capture some stills off the camera and I was all set.

For pictures like this one, I just asked Veronica to go out into the yard and take a bunch of pictures while I did stuff at the desk.

As far as the window sash perfectly blocking the view of us fucking, that was purely by accident.  As we were watching the video playback later, we decided that the blocked view of the action was the perfect touch.

I had a lot of fun with this little series [which I did not intend to be a series when I posted the first set 2 weeks ago] and hope you enjoyed it too.

Today Veronica and I are on our way to Las Vegas, so we’ll be pretty scarce around the blogosphere for the next several days. BUT, we’re bringing the naughty laptop, the camera, and the video camera, with every intention of sharing pictures during our trip.  There might even be some naughtiness

HNT Voyeur The Finale

After wasting a trip earlier in the evening, you return once again.  Feeling bold, you creep across my lawn and hide behind the rhododendron, concealed from any passersby and with a clear view into my basement.

Perhaps you’re wondering if this is another wasted trip, until Veronica and I appear.  You watch us as we embrace and kiss, my pants already gone, her in nothing but a babydoll nightie…

You watch as Veronica pulls off my shirt then drops to her knees, taking me deep in her mouth…

After a few minutes of her oral ministrations, I disappear from your field of view.  What’s going on? What am I doing?  Then you realize I’m just turning down the lights some.  Veronica repositions herself and I enter her from behind…

You remain motionless, afraid to move or make a sound for fear of alerting us to your presence.  Of course, knowing us, we just might invite you to join us if we knew you were there.

But then, as quickly as we got started, we stop, turn out the lights, and disappear to elsewhere in the house, leaving you wondering how we finished…

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This concludes my little voyeur series, and Veronica is finishing her Housework series as well.  As she made an appearance with me, I made an appearance with her.  You should check it out, I think you’ll like it *wink*

Visit Osbasso to see who else is getting half-nekkid this week and go to The Other HNT if you’re interested in a NSFW brand of nekkidness.

We’ll be scarce around the blogosphere Thursday and Friday, as we’ll be driving to NY Thursday evening to bring the kiddos to my dads, then Friday morning we board a flight for our long weekend in Las Vegas.  But we’re bringing the camera and laptop and hope to share pictures, naughty and otherwise, during our trip.

Happy Half-Nekkid Thursday!!!

Is It Time?

You walk by the house again, wondering if you’ll see something through my window, like you did last week.  The blinds are open, the lights are on…

You venture into my yard and peak through the window.  The Liberator shapes are still sitting there…

But where am I?

Perhaps you’ll come back later tonight and try again.  Maybe you’ll have better luck then…

[I know, I'm mean teasing you like this.  Midnight eastern my HNT will be up....]

Bloggers and Endorsements

By now I imagine that most of us have heard that the Federal Trade Commission has updated it’s “Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising”.  The bottom line is that “bloggers who make an endorsement must disclose the material connections they share with the seller of the product or service”.  Click here for more.  So if you receive a sex toy for free and post a review about it, you’re now required to let us the readers know that you did not have to pay for that product, in exchange for your review.

On one hand, I understand the intent of this rule change. You as the product reviewer *might* be inclined give the product a favorable review, so that you continue to receive free sex toys from whoever gives them to you.  I’m not saying that any of you are doing that, just that it is plausible.

But on the other hand, how stupid does the FTC think we are? Of course you’re getting these toys for free!  Do we really need a rule to point out the obvious?  Can anyone think of an example that would not be so obvious?

I’m curious, dear readers, what are your thoughts on this? I’m especially interested in hearing from bloggers who receive sex toys for free, or some other form of compensation, in exchange for your reviews.  What do you think of this rule?

Happy Hump Day!

TMI Tuesday #207- Better Late Than Never

1. What is your underwear “style” of choice?

Ever since Veronica asked if she could upgrade my choice of underwear [let's just say that tightie-whities, even in different colors, didn't do it for her] and she brought home Calvin Klein microfiber trunks for me, that’s all I wear.  Well, I do occasionally go commando *wink*

2. How old were you when you had your first sexual experience?

As in getting laid for the first time? I was 20 and it was with Veronica.  Oral sex, I was 15.

3. What about a potential partner turns you on?

How on Earth do I answer this? I’ve been insanely turned on by younger women, older women, women with a wide variety of physical attributes.  But what they all have in common is attitude and enthusiasm.

4. Have you ever played a game which may require you or others to disrobe?

You know, I don’t think I have…

5. Given or received finger scratch marks during sexual activity?

Probably, but not that I can remember.  Wow, they last two are pretty lame answers…

Bonus: How many times is the most you have ever had sex in a 24 hour period?

With a partner, I’ve had sex 4 times within 24 hours on numerous occasions, but I don’t think I’ve ever had sex 5 times.  Solo and away from Veronica for whatever reason, 5 or 6 times is distinctly possible.  Let’s just say that there were some lonely weekends when I was away for 2 months a few years ago.

When I Win the Lottery…

The lovely Amy wrote about this a month or so ago and asked “What would you do with a lottery win?”

For the fun of it, let’s say that Veronica and I win the lotto and have $5 million dollars after taxes.  One hell of a lot of money, but not the absurd amounts some people get from Powerball, like the $189 million a Florida man won last week.

So here is what I would do with my new-found riches…

- Our home: I’m sick of moving (7 homes/apartments in 16 yrs of marriage), so I’d pay off our home equity line of credit, and add a 2 car garage, but keep the mortgage for tax purposes.  Total cost ~$75 thousand.  A drop in the proverbial bucket

- Our cars: I have never owned a new car and Veronica’s Saturn is getting kinda old.  We’d both get new, but practical cars, like a min-van for her [what? she's a suburban mom!] and something sporty for me.  Hey, I’m almost 40, I might as well take advantage of the perception that I’ll have a midlife crisis.  Oh, and I’d sell my 14 yr old motorcycle for something newer, like a nice Harley-Davidson Fat Boy.  Let’s budget $100 thousand for all that.

- Annuity: the reality is that Veronica and I enjoy our jobs and would keep working, though we would have the freedom to change jobs without worrying about how much we were getting paid.  So I would set up an annuity that would net $200,000 a year.  Based on a rate of return of 8% on our investment, that would require $2.5 million dollars.  Now we’re talking about some real money!

- College funds for the kids: Veronica and I both worked our way through college (for all 5 degrees we have between the two of us) and we’d expect our kids to do the same.  That’s not to say we won’t have money put away to help them.  So we’d put $200 thousand into a trust fund for them for their college education.

Damn, I still have a lot of money left.  I’ve only accounted for jsut shy of $3 million and still have $2 million more.  What do to next…

- Charity: I’m involved in two professional societies that offer a number of graduate student and early-career scientist awards.  I’d give a nice chunk of change to each of those groups to support those awards.  I’d also write some checks to some other charitable organizations and I’m sure Veronica has some groups she’s interested in supporting.

- Family: none of our parents have planned for retirement particularly well, so we’d help them out.  How about $250 thousand to each of them? At 8% rate of return and not using any of the principal, that is $20 thousand/year, which would be a nice supplement to whatever retirement plans they already have.  My sister and Veronica’s brother are doing okay, but we’d be there in case they ever need any financial help.

There is still over $1 million left.  Hmm…

Well, Veronica and I are going to Las Vegas this weekend, anyone want to join us?  Airfare, hotel, incidental expenses, we got it covered…

Of course, since neither Veronica nor I ever play the lotto, this is purely fantasy.  But it’s fun to dream…

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A new Tits for Troops is up!  We’re both exposing ourselves in the name of soldier morale.  Like we need an excuse…

Veronica is also writing about money, she’s dream about pulling the lever on a slot machine this weekend and winning a nice chunk of change.  I think she’s dreaming a little bigger than I am….

Boobiethon is still going on, it’s not too late to donate money and/or pictures

If TMI Tuesday ever gets posted today, maybe I’ll play this evening.

Have a great day!!!

Swing Shift Volume 14- The Introductory Letter

This topic was suggested to us by a few different readers, some of whom prefer to remain anonymous.

You’ve created a profile on a swingers website and have been browsing other profiles with your partner, seeing who catches your attention.  You see a couple that you like, their profile suggests that you might have something in common, and you have similar desires.  It’s time to contact them and see if they’re interested in you.

But how do you do that? What do you say?  For starters, don’t send something like this [all examples are actual messages that we've received and have not been edited in any way]:

hey guys godmorning, very nice profile think we got alot in common, we serious and ready to meet, check us out n hit us up. have a good day

Or like this:

nice pics,,  great butt, T&D

I wish I was kidding, but I logged in to SLS  Sunday evening to look for another example and T&D sent us almost the exact same message again!  That’s now 3 times they’ve sent the same crappy message to us…

Or this:

somehow have missed your profile in the past…lets meet for a drink some time if interested

But this one is pretty good:

We just might be up your way Labor Day Weekend and liked what we read and saw in your profile. We are confident experienced fun people who enjoy the time spent with others who enjoy the lifestyle..

We love people, sex and are a laid back couple who enjoy sharing close times with others.. Seems we might just have a great time knowing the two of you..  Both have playful dirty minds and enjoy sharing in the presence of others who enjoy this type of fun relationship.

Also please don’t be like some of the other cpls out there who have only revealing pics of the female half. After all it’s about the ladies fun as well. You’ll find revealing photos of XXXX and would appreciate the same as far as your male half is concerned.

Let’s just pick a time next weekend (Friday or Sunday)

Now here is one that Veronica sent to a couple that we found attractive:

I took the opportunity to ready your whole profile. (Really I did, you can quiz me and everything!)

I love your sense of humor and intelligence and find both of you sexy as hell from your picture.

*Hubman* is straight and I am bi, do not have to do the girl thing every time. I really enjoy quality cock and someone who knows what to do with it, who can keep me mentally and physically stimulated depending on the situation.

I agree about the not living together thing as I do not get nearly enough control of the remote as it is.

We would love the opportunity to meet and have strip club night (Centerfold’s and Mario’s are favorites) and get to know both of you better.

I am attaching a face pic and you will find that we look nothing like your “absolutely not” person. If you find us attractive and are intrigues by our profile, please shoot us an email or look for us on Yahoo Chat as ************.

Have a great night. Hope to hear from you soon.

*Veronica and Hubman*

Now some of this may not make sense to you, but Veronica was referring to specific things they mentioned in their profile.  We also included a face picture with the message.  The point is, we’re trying to show that we’ve read their profile and we really are interested in getting to know them, and not just fuck them.

Since Veronica takes care of a lot of the e-mailing with other couples, it’s her turn…

Veronica:  I have to admit, my inner HR Geek comes out during this.  I tend to think of each profile as an advertisement for who the couple is and what they want.  I also believe that the physically more attractive the couple is, the more competition there will be for their attention.

My goal:   To make our email stand out from the other emails that the couple might get.

My method of accomplishing this is to refer to things the couple wrote about in their profile.   It makes the person feel special and shows that you are intelligent and detail oriented.    I personally feel that someone who pays attention to detail in other matters will also pay attention while having sex.

If the couple you are e-mailing is light on text, look at the photos.   Have you been to any of the locations in their photos?  Do you admire the lingerie or shoes worn in the photos?  Mentioning those things are good because it shows that you are paying attention.

I also think the fact that I write the emails works out well for us.  It puts the people at ease that there is indeed a woman in the relationship and that the woman is actively engaged in the lifestyle.

Another good pointer is to make sure you are spelling everyone’s name right.  “Caryn” might not be so enamored of you if you address your letter to “Karen”.  Its one of those little things that matter.  And while you’re at it, spell check the rest of the email too.

Ideally your 1st email should show that you read their profile.  It should also offer some teaser information about you that gets the couple to look at your well written, informative profile with quality, recent photos.   Then that profile should get you a response email from the couple.

If you are responding to a couple who sent you an email, make sure you thank them for their interest and look at their profile.  If you are interested in them, follow the guidelines for the initial email in your response.

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As always, comments and questions are welcome.  Note, however, that I’ve disabled anonymous comments (had an asshat or two last week…) so if you’d prefer to remain anonymous, e-mail me at hubman38 at gmail dot com and I promise to keep your ID between you, me and Veronica.

Speaking of Veronica, she has a miscellany post up today, including a little something about a strippers class she’s going to take while we’re in Vegas this coming weekend.  You should go read it…

hey guys godmorning, very nice profile think we got
alot in common, we serious and ready to meet, check
us out n hit us up. have a good day